🎙️Beyond the Noise: Episode 5

BEYOND THE NOISE FROM ARROWHEALTH
Podcast Transcript: Recovery For One: When Finding Freedom Means Leaving Someone Behind
Featuring: Bec (Host), Josh (Co-host), and Stacey (Guest)
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TOBY VO: This is Beyond the Noise from Arrow Health. Real voices, raw stories, and the truth about addiction, recovery, and life.
BEC: Welcome today, everyone. We’re joined by Stacey, who has been a long standing member of the Arrow Health Family Program. Thank you so much for joining us today, Stacey.
STACEY: Thanks for having me.
BEC: So I guess today we just wanted to hear a little bit about your journey and how you came to be in the family program and I guess how you’ve become this absolute master at setting boundaries and putting things in place that I suppose keep you healthy and you safe in your specific situation.
STACEY: Oh, thank you. Master’s definitely an overstatement. Did you want me to start with, I guess, how I came to the Family First Program?
BEC: Yeah, we’d love to know. Yes.
STACEY: Yeah, my mum went to Arrow Health and she was a heroin addict, so she was on methadone for over 30 years, but by the time she came to you guys, she was drinking a lot on the highest dose of methadone she’d ever been on and misusing prescription medication as well. And yeah, I remember she was in there and Julie called me, who runs a family program, and she went to talk to me and I was like, yeah, how’s my mum? And she goes, well, I’ve heard she’s good. And I thought, why are you calling me if you haven’t even spoken to her? And then she was like, I’m here to help you. And I thought, I don’t need help. Like, I don’t know what you need for.
STACEY: And then, yeah, I remember, I was invited along to the Family first program at Arrow Health and it just, it all started from there. It completely changed my life. I didn’t realise that, I was in my late 20s and. And I had no idea that I was a complete hostage to that situation.
BEC: Yeah, right.
STACEY: And that wasn’t right. Yeah.
BEC: And so I suppose you said mum had been a heroin addict for 30 years, so that’s your entire life. You’d grown up with that. So it’d be pretty to not see that you’re in that situation because that’s just what you knew.
STACEY: Yeah, well, she was on methadone, so she was a heroin addict before she had kids. And then they put her on the methadone program.
BEC: Yep. Okay.
STACEY: Safely have kids. And yeah, she used to go to the pharmacy a lot and I just thought it was like going to the pharmacy for any antidepressants because went regularly and I just didn’t know any different, probably quite naive. And then as I got older, I was told it was for a car accident, back injury. And then finally when I got older, I guess it all kind of came out, but I didn’t know any different. So, yeah, I just thought that was normal how I lived.
BEC: Yeah.
STACEY: Okay.
BEC: Yeah. And so Mum’s in treatment and you’ve got this call from Julie, invited to the program. What happens for you then?
STACEY: I remember thinking, I don’t know if I’ll go to this program. I don’t know if, if I need to go or if there’s really help. But, yeah, long story short, I ended up going. And I remember the first. The first time I went and they talked about the autonomic nervous system and the effects on it. And I’d just been diagnosed with POTS, which is to do autonomic nervous system, and you faint. And I was like, oh, my goodness. My health is really affected by this stress. And that’s when I realised I had to change what I was doing because at that point, I think I’d had 10 procedures within 10 years.
BEC: Wow.
STACEY: And just my health was really bad. And, yeah, after that I just decided to. To close down my business and move, two and a half hours away out of the small town I’m from. And I just thought, I’ll have a fresh start. And at that point, it was during COVID and, I didn’t know anyone in the area I moved to, but, yeah, it gave me a whole new chance of a new life that I didn’t know I could have. But the morning I left, I’d packed the truck and I looked at my mum and I said, I’ve got to go. And she just looked at me and she said, if you go, I’m going to use again.
BEC: Yeah.
STACEY: And I just looked and said, that’s why I’m leaving. Like, I can’t be a hostage to this anymore.
BEC: Would you ever have imagined yourself saying that to your mum before interacting with Julie?
STACEY: Definitely not, no. I didn’t even realise it was a problem. So I had no idea that, like, I kind of felt like if I didn’t help her and help keep the facade that everything was okay, that basically, she would die or everything would kind of be over. Everyone would know. And she’d hidden it so well for so long, like she has a business and a partner at that point of, I think, 12 or 13 years, and he didn’t know she was on methadone.
BEC: Wow.
STACEY: Like, the lies Were just extreme everywhere. And we, me and my brother were the only people who really knew. And we’re just hiding everything. And I’m really thankful that during COVID it came to a crunch. It was no longer. We couldn’t hide it anymore. And that’s when she had to go to rehab and try and get some help. Yeah.
BEC: Okay. And so when you ended up putting in this boundary with mum, you’re like, yep, I’m going, that’s it. What then happens? Like, what happens for you? Like, how does that feel in that mument? Because I know when we learn and we know we’ve got to do it, but that first time, we’ve got to actually put it into action. It’s really, like, it can be really uncomfortable.
STACEY: Yes, Uncomfortable. And the amount of. Of guilt and then shame as well. But the guilt that I felt because, I guess, I’m an adult child, so I’ve grown up with the disease and I have this extreme guilt every time I put in a boundary or do anything. Because there’s a part of me that thinks putting in a boundary is me giving up on my mum. You know, like, me just kind of going, oh, I can’t. I can’t do that. Well, before I met Julie, I would have said, that’s giving up. How dare I?
STACEY: But now I realise that if my mum was healthy, I think she would actually want me to live my best life, And I do think that, a normal, healthy person who’s sober wouldn’t want their loved one to be waiting around for them and ruining their own life. And I love my mum and I hope she gets sober. But I also, it’s like they say, the oxygen mask on a plane, you got to put yours on first before you can help anyone else. I can’t help her if I’m not here anyway. And it was to a point where I just. I didn’t know, had the gift of desperation. I didn’t know how I was going to survive.
STACEY: And kind of like, I guess someone getting sober, I had to hit my rock bottom before I was willing to actually put a boundary and. And go, I can’t keep living like this. Yeah, enabling her wasn’t helping her.
BEC: No, no, it never does. We were actually just talking about. And it’s interesting because we’re talking about from an addict’s point of view, that we feel that they have to be in just the right amount of pain. Like, it has to be pretty bad. And I suppose that’s right for the families too, that before you can take action and get recovery for yourselves, your pain has to be enough. Cause if it’s not enough, if you haven’t been through it’s too hard to do. And if it’s too much, like it’s just too much. But when you’re in that level of pain where, oh my God, this is so painful now I need to do it, then you act.
BEC: So it’s almost like everybody, whoever’s getting recovery, whether it’s the addict or the family, they’ve gotta get to this unimaginable pain before that they can do something to help themselves. And that’s really interesting and I guess pretty sad as well.
STACEY: Yeah, it’s amazing because I always thought of the addict as a person who had to hit a rock bottom. But yeah, I didn’t realise that as a family member I have, I have my own rock bottom. And, I always kind of put it as. I feel like there is the point where you kind of like, you’re struggling and life sucks and you’re not quite ready to get help and then there’s a point of absolute despair where you’re ready to get help and you can either be in despair and get help and change your life or some people end their life when you’re in that absolute despair.
BEC: Yeah.
STACEY: And I feel like you have to be at the complete bottom of the barrel, no other way other than up. And you either choose to fight that battle and improve your life or you choose, it’s, I can’t keep going. And then there’s some people who I guess sit in self pity as well or for family members, denial. You know, for me I was in complete denial. I didn’t realise that I had an option and I didn’t realise that what I was doing was enabling. Like me not allowing my mum to have a consequence was not helpful for her either.
BEC: Yeah, absolutely. And when you realise that, when that all came to you, that you realised all these different things that basically the entire way you’d been operating was basically working against you, how did that feel? Because we all know what that’s like when that happens. But in this such a huge situation, your whole life and you come to realise this.
STACEY: Yeah, I think you go through, I guess in the family program they talk about grief, the five stages of grief and that’s something that really hits home because, I went through the anger, I went through the depression and to try and get to that acceptance is really hard, and it’s still like, us family members also have a program, Al Anon and we have step one, which is we’re powerless, and to have to remind myself constantly that I’m completely powerless of my mum getting recovery or anything she does. But I think the main thing for me to remember is knowing that what I did for, nearly 30 years didn’t work. So I had to try something else.
BEC: Yeah, yeah, it got to that point there was you. You ran out of options.
STACEY: Yeah. And I couldn’t hide it anymore and I couldn’t live like that. And, like, I’m just, I look now and this is the best my life has ever been and I, I purely put that down to the Family first program. You know, I do Al Anon as well, but I’m not a very spiritual person so I have trouble with the higher power word and the word God. But, the family program is amazing because they talk about the science of addiction and that is as a family member I find helpful to realise how it’s affected me physically, my brain, but then also how the addiction has affected my mum and how her, whether, she stays sober or not, but her drinking or taking drugs, it’s not a choice. And that, it’s not that she’s picking it over me.
STACEY: Even though it feels like she’s picking it over me, it’s not actually about that. And I think that’s one of the most important things in the program. And the great thing is the skills that you learn of the communication because, I can want to put in whatever boundary I want but if I can’t communicate it without having a massive verbal, blow up argument or something that. Yeah. And, Julie discusses the, what is verbal abuse? And I didn’t know there were so many types of verbal abuse. And, the communication in general, it makes me realise that I need to work on my own communication. You know, I might not be an addict but I have many flaws from growing up in the disease.
STACEY: And, if my normal, what I grew up with as normal was terrible communication and verbal abuse, then I probably don’t really know what normal communication is. And therefore I also need to teach myself how to communicate better and then realise when I’m maybe at a point, with my midbrain where maybe I’ve been triggered myself and my midbrain has flipped and we joke, me and another friend joke when my midbrain is flipped and we go, do you want to go catch it? Like, I think you lost a while ago. And I, I, I don’t use a substance or anything like that, but I have the exact same addictive behaviour, just not with drugs or alcohol. But, yeah, I have the same problem. I, I want to control, fix, manage, control everything.
STACEY: And I think that’s the thing that a lot of us all have in common. It doesn’t matter whether we’re the addict or the family. But I think being able to get that help and support is the best thing, as this is the. I never thought I could have the life I have now, have a job that I don’t think. My mum doesn’t really know what I do, but, if she did, I think she’d be completely shocked, you know? And I have, I recently purchased a house by myself and I live a life that with the upbringing I had, I probably shouldn’t be able to live. And I’m just so thankful. Yeah. So thankful for Arrow, though. Like, without the family program, I wouldn’t be in this position. I don’t know where I would be.
STACEY: It’s completely changed my life and it’s the best thing that ever happened to me.
BEC: Yeah, but you’ve also done the work. You know what I mean? You’re presented with some options and you chose to. You know, I think you got to give yourself some credit for that hard work because it’s not easy dealing with a parent. And, I think that, yeah, you should be proud of yourself. What I’m interested in, though, is how Mum handled that. You know, these boundaries. You put in these boundaries. How did, what did Mum do?
STACEY: Mum didn’t like them. Mum didn’t like them at all. And, yeah, I didn’t actually realise. I guess there’s. She’s an addict, but she’s also just a very abusive person. And I didn’t realise that was abuse. So that’s something I’ve learned as well, thanks to the family program, that I don’t have to put out of unacceptable behaviour and that I have the right to feel safe.
BEC: Yeah.
STACEY: And I have right to say no. I didn’t realise until I moved that I had never felt safe in my home before.
BEC: Yeah. Wow.
STACEY: And then I moved. For the first time ever, I was like, this is what it’s like to feel safe.
BEC: Yeah.
STACEY: You know, so I’m still learning and my normal growing up isn’t most people’s normal, but that’s a Great thing is I get to learn and I get to be able to put those boundaries in. And, at the mument my mum isn’t doing very well. I don’t have contact with her. But she has cancer and she’s not doing good. But, that’s the thing that I, I give myself the opportunity to grieve, I give myself the opportunity to heal and I allow myself to make the decision. But not with a wall. It’s not a wall of like I’m never going to talk to her again. It’s just at this point in time, yes, she is sick, but she’s not quite that sick that I would be willing to put myself in harm’s way. Yeah.
STACEY: You know, and I don’t know at what point she may become that sick and I will have to make decisions if that happens. But that’s a great thing that, we learn in there too, is to realise that a boundary isn’t a wall. It can change, it can be fluid. But, like, I put it up to keep me safe. And the big thing is as a child I wasn’t safe. And as an adult it is my responsibility to keep me safe.
BEC: Yeah.
STACEY: Which is a pretty cool thing to be able to do.
JOSH: Just going back a little bit, Stacey, with the initial boundary that you put in, I know a lot of people when they think of boundaries, it’s just like a one off thing. But actually the hardest part of putting in boundaries is the maintaining of the boundary. Did you get any pushback from putting the boundary in and how have you navigated that process long term?
STACEY: Yeah, yeah, the pushback was pretty strong. So I moved, a good two and a half hours away so my mum couldn’t drop in and she did. So, yes, the boundaries didn’t work very well. But I. Then she came to my house once and I wasn’t impressed, let her in because I didn’t know what to do. And then she came to my house a second time and thankfully I wasn’t there. And I just made it very clear to her that if she came again, I would not be letting her in and that I would call the police. And that was really hard because I felt like a terrible daughter and a terrible person. But I, yeah, I need to, as I said before, I need to keep me safe and I have the right to feel safe.
STACEY: And unfortunately we don’t all have, I guess, parents or caregivers that give us that. And as an adult it is My responsibility if I want to live the life that I hope to live, to find safety, to keep myself safe. And then I have to navigate those feelings of guilt and those feelings of shame and navigate that and realise what guilt is mine and what isn’t mine, and what shame is mine and what shame is not mine. You know, I shouldn’t have shame about the fact that my mum’s a drug addict. I do have it, but it’s actually not really my shame to have, like. And I need to work through that.
STACEY: And I think that’s a great thing is as an adult being able to go, okay, yeah, it’s a lifelong lesson of me trying to reparent myself and teach myself and be a better person and have a better life. And there’s plenty of days where it’s hard. But, as they always say, I can restart my day at any point and kind of, I guess, like AA and NA members, like we have daily readers in Al-Anon. So every morning I try and start my day with one of those. I go to lots of meetings, but, I always make sure to come back to the Family first program because I need that science to remind me even when I’m having a tough time with the higher power word and stuff like that.
STACEY: There’s a really good section in there where it explains the science behind 12 steps and how basically you don’t have to be the smartest person in the room, you don’t have to understand higher power, you just have to keep going and sooner or later you’ll get it. And I remember thinking, okay, cool, I don’t have to understand it, I don’t have to get it, I just have to turn up and I’m willing to keep turning up. And now I can see that it does work. And I’m so thankful that, like people I remember at the start thinking, I don’t have time for this, and it’s amazing now it’s like, I don’t not have time for this. Like that is a priority to me is to make sure that I keep getting help and working on my life.
STACEY: Because if I don’t, then everything around me will be affected, including me trying to keep my job, and I need to realise that those things that keep my life going can only keep going if I continually work on my own health and my mental health and those boundaries and stuff like that with my mum.
BEC: Yeah, I think it’s incredible because I, I feel like there’d have to be some difference between being a child of an addict versus a parent. Because as parents, we’re all versed in putting in boundaries with our kids, and yes, some are better at it than others. Yeah, but. But as kids and I can relate to this, to put in a boundary with your mum or your parent, it’s hard going because it almost feels unnatural, like you shouldn’t have to and you shouldn’t and why are you doing this? Why? And you have to. It’s almost in that moment you’re taking on that parent role and you’re. Because you’ve got to. You’ve got to parent yourself.
BEC: But I find, I think it’s really brave and it’s really courageous to keep sticking at it because I can feel how that would feel to have to sit there and put this boundary in as the child when. Yeah, it’s not nat, you know. Do what I’m saying? It’s not natural as a child to have to do that and many people wouldn’t understand and I can relate at that need to do that. And it’s hard either way. But yeah, it’s definitely. You’ve done an incredible job because you’ve had, you do have to keep reinforcing. You have to go back and know, fix any holes in your bound, like, it’s just how it is. Like you’ve got to, go back out there and.
BEC: And it’s tough going and like you said, you still feel guilt and shame and those things related to that. And I feel like that’s just so normal, but it’s just so, I guess it’s so shit for you that as the kid you’ve had to do that. And I think you’re just so brave.
STACEY: Oh, thank you so much. I think the main thing with setting a boundary is to. To get the support and help I need for that guilt. Because I think the thing that probably makes me let go of a boundary or do something I don’t necessarily want to do is just as pure guilt. Because growing up, all I wanted to be was a good girl, a good daughter, like, that’s all they ever wanted, was to be really good. Yeah. And the thing is, my mum probably is never going to give me what I need or what I needed as a child. And I have to, I have to be willing to understand that’s okay. And it doesn’t mean that I’m not a good child or a good person.
STACEY: But letting go of that boundary and making my inner child feel unsafe isn’t going to help either way. I just have to work through grief and those really hard feelings of have I done something wrong? That, that constant feeling of like, am I letting down my family? Am I disappointment? You know, all of those things. And I just have to let that go and just realise, my priority is to look after me and if my priority is to look after me, if she could just look after her, that would be good. If we all look after ourselves, the world would be a better place. But instead, I grew up with, I’ll look after you mum. And, it was like everyone was looking after everyone else but no one looked after themselves.
STACEY: Yeah, and that’s a great thing about, I guess boundaries and stuff is learning that it’s my job to look after me. I can’t expect that she’s going to put in a safe boundary or treat me a certain way. She’s not capable of doing that. So it is up to me. Like I am now an adult, I’m no longer a child and that’s my job, and I’m so glad that I can see that. I actually do have a choice with that. It’s not, it’s not uncontrollable. I have choices. How she reacts to that is her choice. And all I can do is there’s a slide in the program, be kind, neutral and non punishing.
STACEY: And as long as I can do it in a way that is not mean, I’m not doing it as spot, I’m just doing it in a way that is as kind as I can be. But also, yeah, do the right thing by me because I do only have one life and I’m just so thankful that I finally, for the first time ever, actually get to live it for me, which is pretty exciting.
BEC: Absolutely amazing. Being part of the family program. Would you say knowing it so well, that pretty much boundaries and enabling, the biggest issues, obviously we have the, the fundamental issues associated with addiction but for families themselves and what they need to do. Would you say putting in boundaries and enabling are the two biggest things that they struggle with?
STACEY: Yeah, I think enabling is massive. I did it all the time and I didn’t even know. So what do they say the difference between enabling and helping? Enabling is doing something for someone that they could do for themselves. And I always go, could they do that for themselves? You know, but then I also have to Remember when I am also wanting to be enabled and I’m not an addict, so, yeah, I think enabling can come from all sorts and there’s plenty of times I also want to be enabled with certain things, but it’s up to me to comfort me. But then I think it’s that fine line as well, of going, am I. Am I being really stubborn or do I actually need some support?
STACEY: Like, I remember my dog passed away and I didn’t want to call anyone because I was like, no, I have to comfort me. And someone said, no, you. You are allowed support. Yeah. You know, there’s a difference between enabling and getting what is needed support. And I think that’s also something that can be hard to. When you’re trying to work it out, work out what’s, I guess, healthy, detached, like attachment and detachment, and then working through that and working through it for your loved one who’s the addict, but also for yourself and what you’re expecting of other people at the same time.
BEC: Yeah.
STACEY: Right.
BEC: Yeah. I know you’ve got to go. So just before. No, no, just before you go, I get. I. We like to ask everyone, what is something for people that are listening that you think is a really important message for people to hear?
STACEY: I think just finding that time and realising that you’re worth it, and. And find that time, get that help and yeah, that life can be completely different. This is a absolutely different life to what I ever thought was possible. If you’d asked me, yeah. Four or five years ago if I thought I could be in this position, I would have laughed at you. And I look now and, yeah, my mum isn’t sober, but my life is the best it’s ever been, And I’m. I’m so thankful that my. I guess my feelings or how my day isn’t dependent on someone else.
BEC: Yeah.
STACEY: You know, like, if I’m having a good day, it’s because of my good day. I’m having a bad day, it’s because of my bad day. It’s not because someone else is happy or not happy or sober or not sober. And I think that’s the thing is just realising that, yeah, recovery for the family is hard and it can be time consuming, but it is absolutely worth it. And, yeah, the best thing you can do.
BEC: Amazing. Thank you so much. We’re so grateful for you taking the time today, Stacey.
STACEY: Thank you. So nice to meet you both.
BEC: Yes, you too. Thank you so much.
TOBY VO: You have been listening to Beyond the Noise from Arrow Health. For help or more stories, visit arrowhealth.com.au.

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